Tom
Thanks for the info. It does seem that every time someone else is mentioned on this forum that knows PPs then someone else has to say "they learned" it from GD.

Not all pressure point masters are descendants of Dillman!!!

Hi

Well there is no point in argueing online, I feel it is cowardly to be offensive about someone from a distance.

But mr lambert youre as wrong as you were about oyama killing a bull.

Erle has changed his lineage many times since I first met him in the early 1990's, if you want to believe the fake it is up to you.

I will try to find the article where he dismisses pp's as a  fighting system, like i did with the mas oyama clips to show youre wrong again.

If i dont find em you can continue to infer im a neophyte in PP's.

I do not belong to DKI as ive already stated for the hard of learning I'm just saying what i know, believe it or not.

As Erle now lives in England Im assuming you students of his visit my shores occasionally if you ever fancy training in my pp system let me know.

tc

T

Thodore, You would like the people who vist this web site to believe Dillman with no none history, Is a instructor to those who have some type of none history? that makes no sents. Tom gave you his instructors history and I think that he was truthful and tells all, pos's and con's. I have never heard Dillman's History, ever! why don't one of his students or Dillman himself give use his history. I believe that it will never happen, why? because there is no history to speak of! I think he avoids talk about it because, there is more darkness and shaded area then there is light!
If this was not so, he would give everyone that history, but it has alway been a blank page, in his rise to fame and fortune. I know and have met many master and the first thing that will come up is, there history, starting with boyhood and going on to present day. A man that will not speak has something to hide, possibly.

 When you question a masters integrity, be ready to give your master's or instructor's papers, for you will find a angery student ready to defend his master.  It would be better to be silent. So if there is a history behind G.D. please let use know the world of martial art, would like to hear it!

Hi

A copuple of posts about your man Erle


After reading this article (http://www.tai-chi-chuan.demon.co.uk/chang.html) made in the mid-70's for China Wushu Magazine on Chang Yiu-Chun, a cousin of Yang Shou-hu (the grand son of Yang Lu Chan) I can defintely see why people are skeptical of Erle Montaigue teaching, or even knowing, the Yang Lu Chan style because Erle claims that Chang Yiu-Chun was his teacher and taught him the Yang Lu Chan style, BUT clearly when reading the article you see Chang Yiu-Chun say things like "No one outside of the family knows the style" and "I've taken an oath not to talk about certain things in the style" and "I don't care what goes on in the west".

HOW could this man have possibly wanted to teach earl montaigue.. a non family member who was also a westener, who also wanted to teach everyone in the world all the intimate details of the style?! Does anyone have a good answer for this?

Earl Montaigue posted that interview of Chang Yiu-Chun on his own website BUT you'll notice he edited out ALL of those parts about "oaths" and stuff that makes it seem unlikely that Chang would have wanted to teach someone like erle, read it yourself: http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/chang2.htm

However, that article does show Chang Yiu-Chun admit to teaching about 7 people and said he doesnt know if they went on to teach anyone, but that article also probably takes place before Erle said he met him. So its hard to decypher if erle read that article himself and then found a way to tell this story and make it sound legit or if its really just true. But you still have to wonder why he edited out those parts of the interview that would make it seem suspicious that Chang would have taught him.

Now heres where it gets even more confusing. In the SAME magazine, about 10 years after that interview with Chang Yiu-Chun theres an article that goes like:

"Erle Montaigue and 8 of his students became the first Westerners to be formally invited to attend and perform at the All China National Wushu Tournament held in Yinchuan in Ningxia Province in May of 1985.

Erle had to perform in front of around 2,500 of his Chinese peers and as Erle says was one of the most harrowing things he has ever had to do. He received a standing ovation when he performed the “Old Yang Style of Yang Luch’an”, something that the audience had never seen a Westerner do ever! Fu Zhongwen actually dropped his fan stood up and applauded when Erle had finished."

I want to believe Erle really did learn this old style yang lu chan form from Chan Yiu-Chun but even in this article (http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/Changerle.html) by erle about how he met his Chan Yiu-Chun he says he just met him in australia practicing tai chi but there is no proof that he ever met him or that Chan Yiu-Chun was ever even in Australia. However, as detailed about the art and what he says Chan Yiu-Chun taught him are, its hard to believe he could have just made it up. So the ultimate question is should we just have faith in him that hes tellin the truth? It seems like GREAT stuff, the stuff he teaches, maybe thats all that really matters. For if he really did make it up wouldn't he want credit for it? It's quite unique and amazing stuff, I know I would.


and another


Erle claims his teacher Ho Ho Choy learnt Bagua from Jiang Rong Qiao (JRQ). This is on his website and been repeated countless time by people who did not cross check this claim:
http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/erle.htm

“ In 1981 Erle travelled to Hong Kong, where his form was evaluated by Yang Sau-chung and where he studied with Ho Ho-choy, a direct disciple of Bagwazhang Master Chiang Jung-jiao ( Mandarin = Jiang Rong Qiao JRQ). “


But the fact of the matter is Ho Ho Choy’s teacher is Gao Yi Sheng. This is clearly stated by Ho Ho Choy’s senior student, and therefore Erle's classmate , world renowned Hong Kong IMA teacher CS Tang :
http://cstang.www3.50megs.com/c_ho.htm
http://cstang.www3.50megs.com/gao.htm

“ Ho Ho Choy was introduced by that guardsman, Mr. Wong, to learnt from Gao “

After reading another thread, where a poster questioned Erle’s Bagua lineage claim, I checked with my sources in Hong Kong and it seems it is UNDISPUTED common knowledge that Ho Ho Choi’s Bagua teacher is Gao Yi Sheng ( not Jiang Rong Qiao as claimed by Erle)


This is also verified by a Canadian IMA site which has a fairly detailed lineage tree:
Go to this page , scroll a third way down until you find Erle Montaigue & CS Tang in the lineage tree.
http://www.geocities.com/ottawakungfu/250Bagau002Z.htm

In fact nowhere in the known world , except for Erle’s website, does anyone say Ho Ho Choy’s teacher is Jiang Rong Qiao.



Seems to me that the people who dismiss the significance of belonging to “good” lineage fall into 3 categories;

1. One who doesn’t understand IMA culture
2. One who did not have a teacher with good lineage
3. One who wishes he had good lineage ( Erle?)


tc

T

So Erle is WRONG.

Master Lambert is correct, it is childish, and i'm not Erle's Attorney, and, i'm not here to speak for Erle's Lineage either - Make your accusation's of Erle "Lying" About His Lineage too Erle Himself
My posting Erle's History, was in rebuttal too your original (first sentence) about Erle getting his "first taste" of pp off GD in the 1990's "The dates of Erle's Martial Arts History" disproves your claim   And, of course i'm not going to say that what you claim concerning going to his seminaries is false I have no reason to dispute any of that But, boy --- Erle; Must have really pissed you off, in order for you too make slanderous comments Also, did you fall asleep perhaps,  in your 10th degree Jujitsu Masters Class, you know, the one about "Honor" & "Integrity"
I believe that there is an article (the way of the warrior)?, on Erl's Web - you need too look for it, read it - Then, go and knock on Erle's Door, (you do also live in the UK, don't you) Anyway, don't forget too be humble, but speak your truth, and Erle, if he has the time will enlighten you

Hi there Theodore,
sir,can I ask you something,how long have you practiced martial arts,and do you guys have a homepages,I would like to see some of the stuff,that you do.
Dont get me wrong sir,but dont you think,that your comment are a littlebit offensive,I mean,there are some people in here,that have a respectfull martial art correa behind them,dont you think,that we should show them a respect?!


Mika

Theodore sir,
what is the style that you practise,Im sure,that I can find somekind of a information if you lett me know your style.Meaby someone,that practise
the same style than you have homebages!
I do practise martial art daily,in fact I practise 2 a day...I juts want to see,techniques from your style,and what kind of a pressure point techniques you do.

One more thing,meaby we should go back to topic"what does everyone think of GD theories"

Mika